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Common Public License?

Phil (list)
I was poking around the lmms.io web site and ran across some files that
were being distributed under a Common Public License.  That was a new
one to me so I did some poking around and now that I understand what it
is (I think... as I didn't see a link to the definition or license on
the site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Public_License)  So now
I'm wondering... why was this license chosen for use on the site?
 Based on a quick bit of reading it's incompatible with the GPL,
deprecated by it's creators, and not in the mainstream of creative
licenses I've seen used. Just wondering why...

Thanks,
Phil

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Re: Common Public License?

Tres Finocchiaro
Phil,

Thanks for clarification.  Your concerns are really a duplicate of https://github.com/LMMS/lmms.io/issues/54.

Please feel free to chime in there.

In short, no one has really touched our LSP code in quite some time and unless you know someone eager to work with our codebase, it won't happen any time soon.

These undesired licenses should be hidden from selection and only offered as backwards compatibility to honor historical data.

Each song, sample, preset, theme on our LSP is copyright of the submitter and the lmms-devs can't change bad decisions without contacting each contributor (hard to do, since user names on our LSPs don't even have registered email addresses).  The LSP is a great concept, but to be taken as a serious collaborative platform it needs a lot of work.  This issue you've mentioned is one of many issues with the LSP, and we need help with it.  We're short on c++ developers, so the website stuff takes a back seat to that.  Sorry if that sounds grim, but we're always open to help. :)

-Tres


On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Phil (list) <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tres,

On Sun, 2016-02-07 at 21:31 -0500, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:
> There's not much left from the original site... probably wasn't
> handled/changed when we converted from sourceforge.
> This conversation is best done as a dedicated lmms.io repo bug report
> with the relevant files linked so we can investigate their history,
> seek permission (prob from @tobydox if needed) and also discuss a
> more permissive/permanent license.

I'll file a bug as you suggest.

> That said, the public should have little or no use with any of the
> lmms.io website code... It's quite simple and specific. To make it
> something more reusable, and to be consistent with the software
> license, we'd be happy to do what it takes to make it better.

It's not website code I'm referring to, it's the license designation
for LMMS related files being posted to it such as: <a href="https://lmms.io/lsp/ ?action=show&amp;file=7972" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lmms.io/lsp/
?action=show&file=7972

Thanks,
Phil

> -Tres
> On Feb 7, 2016 9:15 PM, "Phil (list)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I was poking around the lmms.io web site and ran across some files
> > that
> > were being distributed under a Common Public License.  That was a
> > new
> > one to me so I did some poking around and now that I understand
> > what it
> > is (I think... as I didn't see a link to the definition or license
> > on
> > the site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Public_License)  So
> > now
> > I'm wondering... why was this license chosen for use on the site?
> >  Based on a quick bit of reading it's incompatible with the GPL,
> > deprecated by it's creators, and not in the mainstream of creative
> > licenses I've seen used. Just wondering why...
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Phil
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------------
> > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application
> > Performance
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> > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
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> > _______________________________________________
> > LMMS-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lmms-devel
> >


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Re: Common Public License?

Phil (list)
On Sun, 2016-02-07 at 22:47 -0500, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:
> Phil,
>
> Thanks for clarification.  Your concerns are really a duplicate of ht
> tps://github.com/LMMS/lmms.io/issues/54.
>
> Please feel free to chime in there.
>

Ahh... too late: already submitted a new issue.  Feel free to merge it
or close as duplicate as it makes sense.

> In short, no one has really touched our LSP code in quite some time
> and unless you know someone eager to work with our codebase, it won't
> happen any time soon.
>

Fair enough... I was just surprised to see it (mainly since I didn't
remember what the CPL was and generally keep up on such stuff)

> These undesired licenses should be hidden from selection and only
> offered as backwards compatibility to honor historical data.
>
> Each song, sample, preset, theme on our LSP is copyright of the
> submitter and the lmms-devs can't change bad decisions without
> contacting each contributor (hard to do, since user names on our LSPs
> don't even have registered email addresses).  The LSP is a great
> concept, but to be taken as a serious collaborative platform it needs
> a lot of work.  This issue you've mentioned is one of many issues
> with the LSP, and we need help with it.  We're short on c++
> developers, so the website stuff takes a back seat to that.  Sorry if
> that sounds grim, but we're always open to help. :)
>

No biggie... I just figured I'd ask about it since I noticed it before
I forgot.  Not a high priority issue.

W.R.T. c++ developers, I had offered a while back to try to help out
with a couple of things but then I got sick and when I came back the
mailing list had largely gone silent.  Was waiting to see what was
finally decided re: the plan for 1.2/2.0... (issues only give the
tactical view, what's the big picture plan?)

> -Tres
>
> - [hidden email]
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Phil (list) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Tres,
> >
> > On Sun, 2016-02-07 at 21:31 -0500, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:
> > > There's not much left from the original site... probably wasn't
> > > handled/changed when we converted from sourceforge.
> > > This conversation is best done as a dedicated lmms.io repo bug
> > report
> > > with the relevant files linked so we can investigate their
> > history,
> > > seek permission (prob from @tobydox if needed) and also discuss a
> > > more permissive/permanent license.
> >
> > I'll file a bug as you suggest.
> >
> > > That said, the public should have little or no use with any of
> > the
> > > lmms.io website code... It's quite simple and specific. To make
> > it
> > > something more reusable, and to be consistent with the software
> > > license, we'd be happy to do what it takes to make it better.
> >
> > It's not website code I'm referring to, it's the license
> > designation
> > for LMMS related files being posted to it such as: https://lmms.io/
> > lsp/
> > ?action=show&file=7972
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Phil
> >
> > > -Tres
> > > On Feb 7, 2016 9:15 PM, "Phil (list)" <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > > I was poking around the lmms.io web site and ran across some
> > files
> > > > that
> > > > were being distributed under a Common Public License.  That was
> > a
> > > > new
> > > > one to me so I did some poking around and now that I understand
> > > > what it
> > > > is (I think... as I didn't see a link to the definition or
> > license
> > > > on
> > > > the site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Public_License)
> >  So
> > > > now
> > > > I'm wondering... why was this license chosen for use on the
> > site?
> > > >  Based on a quick bit of reading it's incompatible with the
> > GPL,
> > > > deprecated by it's creators, and not in the mainstream of
> > creative
> > > > licenses I've seen used. Just wondering why...
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > > > -------------
> > > > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application
> > > > Performance
> > > > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just
> > $35/Month
> > > > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions
> > now
> > > > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup
> > Now!
> > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/414
> > 0
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > LMMS-devel mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lmms-devel
> > > >
> >

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Re: Common Public License?

Tres Finocchiaro
W.R.T. c++ developers, I had offered a while back to try to help out
with a couple of things but then I got sick and when I came back the
mailing list had largely gone silent.  Was waiting to see what was
finally decided re: the plan for 1.2/2.0... (issues only give the
tactical view, what's the big picture plan?)

A stable-1.2 branch is on the horizon and our bug tracker is very active with more information about that.  In regards to "big-picture", the last future map was being led by a developer which has gone dormant and many of our original contributors for the 1.2 feature-set have also left or are too busy to assist with the release, leaving the project in mostly maintenance mode.

That said, we're making incremental progress on a few fronts which are mostly usability and cosmetic.  The major core rewrites haven't been mapped out fully yet, but can be inferred by a few bug reports:


And our never-finished Zyn upgrade.... 





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Re: Common Public License?

Phil (list)
On Sun, 2016-02-07 at 23:19 -0500, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:

> > W.R.T. c++ developers, I had offered a while back to try to help
> > out
> > with a couple of things but then I got sick and when I came back
> > the
> > mailing list had largely gone silent.  Was waiting to see what was
> > finally decided re: the plan for 1.2/2.0... (issues only give the
> > tactical view, what's the big picture plan?)
> A stable-1.2 branch is on the horizon and our bug tracker is very
> active with more information about that.  In regards to "big-
> picture", the last future map was being led by a developer which has
> gone dormant and many of our original contributors for the 1.2
> feature-set have also left or are too busy to assist with the
> release, leaving the project in mostly maintenance mode.
>
> That said, we're making incremental progress on a few fronts which
> are mostly usability and cosmetic.  The major core rewrites haven't
> been mapped out fully yet, but can be inferred by a few bug reports:
>
> https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2252
> https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2311
>
> And our never-finished Zyn upgrade.... 
>
> https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/1991
>
>

Thanks... I wasn't aware of the roster changes.  This gives me a good
starting point to catch up on things.
>

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Re: Common Public License?

Tres Finocchiaro

Putting the list back on copy. :)

On Feb 8, 2016 9:38 AM, "Tres Finocchiaro" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sam,

Sorry you were unable to gain access to the site back when you had initially offered to help.  Site access was a bit of a mystery for outsiders at that time and the obscure sourceforge security model didn't make it any easier. :)

Now we're on a virtual private Ubuntu server.  Still only a few people have direct console access, but the github repo auto-deploys to the website, so Pull Requests end up on our public webpage within minutes of being accepted.  LSP coding does require a skeleton database (or a copy of our live database) to get started and a bit of mysql knowledge, but now's as good of a time as any to get started.  One of us can give you the schema if needed.  I had started writing an LSP dev tutorial a while back and never finished it: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms.io/wiki/LSP-Installation

Like all aspects of our project, we're in dire need of contributors, so if it's easier to set you up as admin on certain items, we can cross that bridge as well.

Currently, the site maintainers are myself, Umcaruje and Lukas-W.  We'd be happy to add "Sam ." to that list. :)


On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 12:23 AM, Sam . <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Tres,

A while back (a number of years) I requested access to the current LSP source code and keys to the site so that I could give it a much-needed overhaul, however I got no response from the then-maintainers. This was back before the whole developer resurgence and lmms.io migration. I'm still keen to re-do the sharing platform if others are happy for me to do it.

Kind regards,

Sam

On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 at 15:45 Phil (list) <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sun, 2016-02-07 at 23:19 -0500, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:
> > W.R.T. c++ developers, I had offered a while back to try to help
> > out
> > with a couple of things but then I got sick and when I came back
> > the
> > mailing list had largely gone silent.  Was waiting to see what was
> > finally decided re: the plan for 1.2/2.0... (issues only give the
> > tactical view, what's the big picture plan?)
> A stable-1.2 branch is on the horizon and our bug tracker is very
> active with more information about that.  In regards to "big-
> picture", the last future map was being led by a developer which has
> gone dormant and many of our original contributors for the 1.2
> feature-set have also left or are too busy to assist with the
> release, leaving the project in mostly maintenance mode.
>
> That said, we're making incremental progress on a few fronts which
> are mostly usability and cosmetic.  The major core rewrites haven't
> been mapped out fully yet, but can be inferred by a few bug reports:
>
> https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2252
> https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2311
>
> And our never-finished Zyn upgrade.... 
>
> https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/1991
>
>

Thanks... I wasn't aware of the roster changes.  This gives me a good
starting point to catch up on things.
>

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