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Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

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Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

Stian Jørgensrud
Let's see if the dicussion from here https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1018 can continue without cluttering the issue tracker.

Arrangement and sorting of the samples weren't even an issue, yet! And if sorting is the only thing you don't like about the old samples, I advice you to change your vote for keeping them, then in a new arrangement. Now we know how you want to arrange the samples. There is really now definitive answer on what is best, I for one have never disliked the grouping. With labels you could sort in drum sets, type of samples, genres, or your personal way. So the perfect sorting of samples would be introducing labels.

Back to the real question:
HDDigitizer and mikobuntu gave their vote on removing/updating and let the old ones be downloadable. I vote on keeping them. Are you okay with updating/removing the samples from LMMS? All who have an opinion who this should say what you think.


Quote HDDigitizerMusic: "The only problem I have with this is the current sample library isn't sorted very well and most of them are unneeded loops or sampled instrument one-shots that are taking up unnecessary space. Its kind of hard to get around the sample pack. The folders have sort of misguiding names that have mixed up types of instruments/drums in them. If we replaced them, we could have much better sorting such as a folder named kicks with ten kicks in them, then snares, then cymbal and so on fourth."
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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

Tres Finocchiaro
Some of these are in subfolders that have been there for a while, so if we move them even our own projects that ship with lmms could break.

It would be nice to maintain some level of backwards compatibility although I do agree that having them organized in an intuitive fashion is something that needs to be addressed.

It's hard to move stuff that's been there for a while and had projects linking to it without stirring a bunch of fuss so a creative backwards-compat reorg (if even possible) might be our ideal solution?

-Tres



On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Stian Jørgensrud <[hidden email]> wrote:
Let's see if the dicussion from here https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1018
can continue without cluttering the issue tracker.

Arrangement and sorting of the samples weren't even an issue, yet! And if
sorting is the only thing you don't like about the old samples, I advice you
to change your vote for keeping them, then in a new arrangement. Now we know
how you want to arrange the samples. There is really now definitive answer
on what is best, I for one have never disliked the grouping. With labels you
could sort in drum sets, type of samples, genres, or your personal way. So
the perfect sorting of samples would be introducing labels.

Back to the real question:
HDDigitizer and mikobuntu gave their vote on removing/updating and let the
old ones be downloadable. I vote on keeping them. Are you okay with
updating/removing the samples from LMMS? All who have an opinion who this
should say what you think.


/Quote HDDigitizerMusic: "The only problem I have with this is the current
sample library isn't sorted very well and most of them are unneeded loops or
sampled instrument one-shots that are taking up unnecessary space. Its kind
of hard to get around the sample pack. The folders have sort of misguiding
names that have mixed up types of instruments/drums in them. If we replaced
them, we could have much better sorting such as a folder named kicks with
ten kicks in them, then snares, then cymbal and so on fourth."/



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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

HDDigitizerMusic
Can't we just give away the current sample pack for download telling the users to add it onto the new one at their own risk?

That way, if people want to use older project files, (after the new sample library is released.) they can.
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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

Tres Finocchiaro

Perhaps, but we should be mindful of how the samples impact our shipped tracks, the demos that come with the software.

The sample pack also needs to be easy to install, or we have the option to export tracks with their samples zipped in.


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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

musikbear
Tres Finocchiaro wrote
we should be mindful of how the samples impact our shipped
tracks, the demos that come with the software.
and thats vip! -but.. re 'we' dead sure that none of the less pedigreed samples have been used in any shipped demo?
Again, users will hate the devs, if
*   there work suddently has changed (result of exchangeing packs but, preserving names)
*   there work is broken/ destroyed (result of removing all old samples)

What i think is, that a new sample pack should be 'sold' to the users as a new feature! Eg, an improvement of lmms. No need to let users know, that some of the old samples has unknown origin. Its without any context to anything at all. The risk (and a risk does exists, but i wont write anything at all -that aspect should not apear on print! I will sugest that we could meet and have a verbal talk around this in apear.in HTML5 direct-talk -its glorious!) -is solely there in respect to the factory-pack, inside lmms! Endusers will newer be in risc of anything. BUT! -We need to be carefull. Dum acts could have serious implication for Toby!
So, let new samplepack be a feature
Give user a nice head-up in the first page of the installer. Large letters, bright colors -something that cant be missed. ..like
LMMS team PROUDLY present LMMS all brand new sample-pack with only high-quality xxxyyyyzzz dB über nice samples for your enhanced music creating LMMS expirience. [+more blahh of the same shelf] and in the bottom a passus like
Your original old sample-libraries will not be touched.


If this aproach is efectuated, then the implications are:

Pro:
  *  There will no longer be any samples in lmms with unknown origin
  *  LMMS will have a great sample-pack
  *  No users personal work is touched
  *  Backward compatibility is preserved

Con:
  * All demos need to be fitted with sounds from the new sample-pack
  * The installer need a change that will let the old sample-library stay untouched

The 'demo remake' is not that big deal. Also it has been up for discussion already, if the demos really represent LMMS's quality, so perhaps its no deal at all?
But in case -i think its quite easy to drum a team together, for that job. Im ready..

Is it a problem to change the installer? Other need to look at that.





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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

diiz
On 07/26/2014 01:49 PM, musikbear wrote:
> Tres Finocchiaro wrote
>> we should be mindful of how the samples impact our shipped
>> tracks, the demos that come with the software.
> and thats/ vip! /-but.. re 'we' dead sure that /none/ of the less pedigreed
> samples have been used in any shipped demo?
> Again, users will hate the devs, if
> *   there work suddently has changed (result of exchangeing packs but,
> preserving names)
> *   there work is broken/ destroyed (result of removing all old samples)

Backwards compatibility is a tricky issue.

On one hand, breaking backwards compat should be avoided as it can
discourage people from upgrading if they can't continue on their old
works anymore. On the other hand, we can't restrict ourselves from
improving the software and providing new functionality - we can't let
ourselves be chained by the past.

So it's always a balancing act.

I think the whole samples issue becomes moot if we first introduce the
feature where it's possible to embed all sample data in the project
file. Then introduce the sample library changes only after that, and the
problem will be solved as old samples will be embedded in the project files.

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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

David Gerard-2
On 26 July 2014 11:56, Vesa <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think the whole samples issue becomes moot if we first introduce the
> feature where it's possible to embed all sample data in the project
> file. Then introduce the sample library changes only after that, and the
> problem will be solved as old samples will be embedded in the project files.


Embedding samples in the saved files would be a *wonderful* thing.


- d.

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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

drunken jesus
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
^agreed, BTW I posted and linked drum samples I've created in the spreadsheet, next time I have a bit of free time I'll search for some public domain samples to fill some other voids as the drum's have a good bit of contributers so they should be covered

as for breaking the demo projects, I don't really think it will be much of an issue to replace missing drum samples with similar ones from the new bundle, I don't think any of them made extensive use of the one-shot instrument samples or the loops which from what I gather won't be apart of the new bundle
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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

HDDigitizerMusic
In reply to this post by Stian Jørgensrud
Subaqueous agreed to let us use all his free samples.

I told him we want all we can get. (Even if they won't be in this library but as a larger add-on pack we have been planning.) He will be sending them over soon. :)
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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

Tres Finocchiaro

Great.  Make sure to get his release in writing that he allows them to be relicensed GPL.


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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

diiz
On 07/29/2014 04:08 AM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:
>
> Great.  Make sure to get his release in writing that he allows them to
> be relicensed GPL.
>

No, CC0.

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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

HDDigitizerMusic
I have their replies in text and screen shots.
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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

Tres Finocchiaro
Ok, do their replies reference a specific license?  I just want to make sure as copyright is something we should not make any assumptions on.  We should also include a LICENSE.TXT which clearly states credit to the original owners and that they've been re-released under the appropriate license.



On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:44 PM, HDDigitizerMusic <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have their replies in text and screen shots.



-----
HD Digitizer Music | [URL="http://YouTube.com/HDDigitizerMusic"]YouTube[/URL] | [URL="https://soundcloud.com/DigitizerMusic"]SoundCloud[/URL] | [URL="https://www.facebook.com/pages/HD-Digitizer-Music/503908679670452"]Facebook[/URL] | [URL="http://Twitter.com/DigitizerMusic"]Twitter[/URL]
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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by diiz
On 29 July 2014 06:39, Vesa <[hidden email]> wrote:

> No, CC0.


Yup, CC0 or other public domain equivalent. People have to be able to
use these samples in proprietary music.


- d.

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Re: Credit For The Samples Collected On The Internet From Other Producers Royalty Free Packs #1018

HDDigitizerMusic
In reply to this post by Tres Finocchiaro
>Ok, do their replies reference a specific license?  I just want to make sure as copyright is something we should not make any assumptions on.

I agree but I have told them what the licencing the samples will now have and they have agreed. (CC0) Since I have told them the CC0 licencing in my post, by agreeing to let us use these samples, they also agree to use this licencing. Since they have agreed to what I have said in writing, we have all the permission we need, but if need be, we can follow up.

Here are their replies:

Markus Hakala:
This is awesome. Yes, you have my permission and thanks for asking it. So, go ahead, I will appreciate it!

Subaqueous:
Sure that sounds great, Could you contact me at isaac@subaqueousmusic.com Also could you give me a list of samples you would like, or would you like me to send you a bunch? Looking for one shot samples, or loops?

>We should also include a LICENSE.TXT which clearly states credit to the original owners and that they've been re-released under the appropriate license.
 
Yeah, a LICENSE.TXT showing how we got their permission is an awesome idea. I think we should totally do that.
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