How to get started

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How to get started

Sufian Featuring
Hi,
I'm much interested contributing in lmms development.
I know C++ and I'm intermediate programmer.
I compose musics often, so I want to customize lmms more.
How can I get started ?
Thank you.

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Re: How to get started

musikbear
This link
https://lmms.io/get-involved/
under 'Develop'
And this from the wiki
https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/wiki
about creating your own fork and repository, should give you first ideas.  I am not sure everything is fully updated, but someone else will chime in, if so :)
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Re: How to get started

Tres Finocchiaro
@Sufian,

Thanks for chiming in.  We need the help!

We use QT for our GUI (and many other items).

  • If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt Creator and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.
  • If you're a kate/gedit/vi/emacs type coder, you can get started right away with the tutorials that @musikBear linked above
In regards to OS... are you on Linux, Mac or Windows?
  • Windows doesn't have a working build tutorial yet.  I tried for a few days and was unsuccessful.  Linux is currently recommended.  Ubuntu is the quickest platform to get started with.
  • Linux building is pretty straight forward on all distros so as long as you know your way around the package managers to meet dependencies.  Debian and Ubuntu are pretty much a copy and paste of commands to get started.
  • Mac building is pretty straight forward as well.  Homebrew will probably get you started faster than MacPorts, but our tutorial is still written around MacPorts, so you'd be fastest looking at this travis recipe.
In regards to patches, we use Pull Requests exclusively now.
  • If you're not familiar with PRs and GitHub, this might be your biggest battle at first
    • They allow us to comment and make tweaks before patches are merged
  • If you're already familiar with GitHub pull requests, you can get started now, just fork our main branch, master preferably.
In regards to what work to do... that is often the second biggest battle...
Hopefully that's enough to get you started.  Welcome. :)

-Tres




On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 6:19 AM, musikbear <[hidden email]> wrote:
This link
https://lmms.io/get-involved/
under 'Develop'
And this from the wiki
https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/wiki
about creating your own fork and repository, should give you first ideas.  I
am not sure everything is fully updated, but someone else will chime in, if
so :)



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Re: How to get started

Dave French
Sufian 

Nice to see your intrested :)

We also have an irc channel on freenode #LMMS, if you have any questions.

Welcome.

On 12 June 2015 at 13:45, Tres Finocchiaro <[hidden email]> wrote:
@Sufian,

Thanks for chiming in.  We need the help!

We use QT for our GUI (and many other items).

  • If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt Creator and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.
  • If you're a kate/gedit/vi/emacs type coder, you can get started right away with the tutorials that @musikBear linked above
In regards to OS... are you on Linux, Mac or Windows?
  • Windows doesn't have a working build tutorial yet.  I tried for a few days and was unsuccessful.  Linux is currently recommended.  Ubuntu is the quickest platform to get started with.
  • Linux building is pretty straight forward on all distros so as long as you know your way around the package managers to meet dependencies.  Debian and Ubuntu are pretty much a copy and paste of commands to get started.
  • Mac building is pretty straight forward as well.  Homebrew will probably get you started faster than MacPorts, but our tutorial is still written around MacPorts, so you'd be fastest looking at this travis recipe.
In regards to patches, we use Pull Requests exclusively now.
  • If you're not familiar with PRs and GitHub, this might be your biggest battle at first
    • They allow us to comment and make tweaks before patches are merged
  • If you're already familiar with GitHub pull requests, you can get started now, just fork our main branch, master preferably.
In regards to what work to do... that is often the second biggest battle...
Hopefully that's enough to get you started.  Welcome. :)

-Tres




On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 6:19 AM, musikbear <[hidden email]> wrote:
This link
https://lmms.io/get-involved/
under 'Develop'
And this from the wiki
https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/wiki
about creating your own fork and repository, should give you first ideas.  I
am not sure everything is fully updated, but someone else will chime in, if
so :)



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Re: How to get started

Cláudio Pinheiro
Hello there.


I'm Cláudio Pinheiro and I've been lurking here for some time (maybe to grab some courage to contribute).
I've been fiddling on and off with LMMS (I use some other DAWs for my stuff), and I feel it is already a great accomplishment. Of course there's still a lot to do, but no software is ever complete anyway. Tous mes compliments!
I'd like to ask some questions, if you don't mind. I beg you pardon in advance if some of my questions and comments may sound a bit off(ensive), please take them in a relaxed, good spirit as if coming from a close friend (that we aren't - yet) and with the best intentions. Pardon me too for my poor, non-native English grammar skills, and excuse me for mentioning other DAWs once in a while.

Let's start:


Can I use Qt5 or should I stick to Qt4?
What's up with those Plastik decorations? Are they themeable?
Is there any progress with MIDI IN for OS X/Windows?
Any plans for vectorial widgets and/or HiDPI support?
Any plans for more platforms?

Some things to take in consideration:
More platforms may be good. Caustic supports Win/Lin/OSX/iOS/Droid (the last two are paid versions), what's good but the software is a tad limited, something more powerful would be nice. LMMS may fit and even go way beyond. iOS development now is a lot easier witth XCode 7 (currently beta), as it allows a developer to test an iOS program in the real hardware without the need of an Apple Developer license. Android development tools are readily available. Qt integrates well with both. iOS uses CoreAudio just as OS X, Android uses tinyalsa, what makes easier to port RtAudio (if it's not already working). The tools are right here for us to use.
Multiple platforms have different form factors, resolutions and such (duh). To be shown in a meaningful usable way LMMS must adapt to such multitude of environments. 4K displays are becoming popular, and multiple-display setups are common in songwriting/production. Mobile songwriting is common nowadays too (Garage Band for iOS, FL Studio Mobile, Caustic, Xewton MusicStudio and so on), but we still have no easy way to be able to accommodate to both use cases while preserving feature parity and good usability. Mobile DAW apps are still "toys" for most purposes, lacking firepower and missing resources. This shouldn't be the case anymore. LMMS may change it for good.
LMMS should plan for HiDPI. A vectorial UI would help this a lot. KDE uses SVG for it (with cached PNG images). Qt support is planned for 5.6. 5.5 has partial support.
Qt4 will not receive updates. CopperSpice may be a dead end. Qt5 is where new development is coming from, so maybe it's time to embrace it wholeheartedly, not just making LMMS compatible with Qt5, but putting its "new" features to a good use. I don't know the status of the current LMMS code in these matters, but I'm somewhat assuming there's a lot of legacy because of the Plastik decorations. Come on. LMMS, UI-wise, is... "lovely". Let's spell it: "eff", "you", "gee", "ell", "why". "Lovely", as in "beaten with the lovely stick". It doesn't diminish its capabilities as a DAW, but an UI overhaul is long overdue. Plastik is KDE3. I was unable to find a theme selector. This UI rant is not for the sake of ranting, but because changing the UI of such a complex project like LMMS is a complex task, but one that would benefit LMMS and its users a lot. Qt5 offers UI HW acceleration, theming and animations with Qt Quick (faster than Qt Widgets). Changes in UI can be tested without recompiling the code(!). Theming is easier to implement, and an MVC model with LMMS core separated from the Views would allow better portability to other devices (different UIs for different form factors).
Another point is feature parity. Currently LMMS fails to act as expected in non-Linux platforms when dealing with MIDI, and displaying ZynAddSubFx. Audio on Windows is tricky (the device/backend selector behaves oddly, not saving settings in some circumstances, preventing LMMS from generating audio and sticking users in a "restart program" hell). I know these issues depend on other people, but enforcing feature parity (when reasonable) will lead to a smoother user experience across platforms.
There are other places of improvement and innovation: Undo/Redo, seamless editing across platforms (maybe allowing the use of some network storage solution like Dropbox, Mega to enable automatic project syncing), AVB/TSN, project spanned between multiple computers on a network, parallel editing, automatic channel freezing to allow editing more complex sessions on a less capable device, automatic plugin discovery/mangling/selection (being able to use the same plugin as an AU on Mac and a VST on Windows), downloadable content (audio patches, samples, soundfonts, themes) and so on.

I'll try to compile it for OS X and Windows this weekend, and do some exploration. If the idea of iOS and Android versions flourish I'll be able to put my hands on it too.


Best regards,


Cláudio Pinheiro

2015-06-12 13:06 GMT-03:00 Dave French <[hidden email]>:
Sufian 

Nice to see your intrested :)

We also have an irc channel on freenode #LMMS, if you have any questions.

Welcome.

On 12 June 2015 at 13:45, Tres Finocchiaro <[hidden email]> wrote:
@Sufian,

Thanks for chiming in.  We need the help!

We use QT for our GUI (and many other items).

  • If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt Creator and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.
  • If you're a kate/gedit/vi/emacs type coder, you can get started right away with the tutorials that @musikBear linked above
In regards to OS... are you on Linux, Mac or Windows?
  • Windows doesn't have a working build tutorial yet.  I tried for a few days and was unsuccessful.  Linux is currently recommended.  Ubuntu is the quickest platform to get started with.
  • Linux building is pretty straight forward on all distros so as long as you know your way around the package managers to meet dependencies.  Debian and Ubuntu are pretty much a copy and paste of commands to get started.
  • Mac building is pretty straight forward as well.  Homebrew will probably get you started faster than MacPorts, but our tutorial is still written around MacPorts, so you'd be fastest looking at this travis recipe.
In regards to patches, we use Pull Requests exclusively now.
  • If you're not familiar with PRs and GitHub, this might be your biggest battle at first
    • They allow us to comment and make tweaks before patches are merged
  • If you're already familiar with GitHub pull requests, you can get started now, just fork our main branch, master preferably.
In regards to what work to do... that is often the second biggest battle...
Hopefully that's enough to get you started.  Welcome. :)

-Tres




On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 6:19 AM, musikbear <[hidden email]> wrote:
This link
https://lmms.io/get-involved/
under 'Develop'
And this from the wiki
https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/wiki
about creating your own fork and repository, should give you first ideas.  I
am not sure everything is fully updated, but someone else will chime in, if
so :)



--
View this message in context: http://linux-multimedia-studio-lmms.996328.n3.nabble.com/How-to-get-started-tp11795p11796.html
Sent from the lmms-devel mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: How to get started

Tres Finocchiaro
@Cláudio,

Thanks for chiming in.  We're well aware of the areas we need to improve on and the items you've pointed out are on our radar, but we need help making them happen.

I'd strongly suggest the next time you type up a long wish list, you make it a list, rather than a run-on paragraph.  It is very unlikely people will read your entire rant about LMMS.  It is about 10x too long given the content.

That said, you've asked about a few important items:

  • Qt theme - Yes some of the plastik-type items are built-in and not easy to change.  #1911 can hypothetically address that, but this is a 2+ year effort with no one starting on it.  #880 too.  Oh yeah, also #1839
  • Qt4 vs. Qt5 - We had it building with Qt5 a while ago, AFAIK, we just need someone to help in that area to make that work again.
  • MIDI on Windows - Windows works great, that part of your statement is incorrect.
  • MIDI on OSX - Needs help per #1153.  Please help if you can in this area.
  • "F", "U", "G", "L", "Y" - Piss off.
  • Undo/Redo - We're well aware.  1.2 will help immensely in this regard.  We're making progress per #1262, #1697, #1699 (and many others).
  • iOS/Android - No.  This is a very ignorant request to make. Android doesn't even use C++ for most of its operations (it uses Java).  iOS requires XCode for building and Apple's EULA goes against the GPL.  This simply won't happen with the LMMS codebase.
  • Hi-Res displays:  We're well aware of per: #455
  • SVG:  In the works per: #887#1891 and many others.  This is just a matter of rolling up our sleeves and doing it.  Probably a 2 month effort.
An all of that said, you're raising these requests on the mailing list, so they'll eventually get buried with time.  If there is something you feel is missing in our tracker, please open a new bug report (or add comments to one already opened).   If you know C++, get to work. :)

-Tres


On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Cláudio Pinheiro <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello there.


I'm Cláudio Pinheiro and I've been lurking here for some time (maybe to grab some courage to contribute).
I've been fiddling on and off with LMMS (I use some other DAWs for my stuff), and I feel it is already a great accomplishment. Of course there's still a lot to do, but no software is ever complete anyway. Tous mes compliments!
I'd like to ask some questions, if you don't mind. I beg you pardon in advance if some of my questions and comments may sound a bit off(ensive), please take them in a relaxed, good spirit as if coming from a close friend (that we aren't - yet) and with the best intentions. Pardon me too for my poor, non-native English grammar skills, and excuse me for mentioning other DAWs once in a while.

Let's start:


Can I use Qt5 or should I stick to Qt4?
What's up with those Plastik decorations? Are they themeable?
Is there any progress with MIDI IN for OS X/Windows?
Any plans for vectorial widgets and/or HiDPI support?
Any plans for more platforms?

Some things to take in consideration:
More platforms may be good. Caustic supports Win/Lin/OSX/iOS/Droid (the last two are paid versions), what's good but the software is a tad limited, something more powerful would be nice. LMMS may fit and even go way beyond. iOS development now is a lot easier witth XCode 7 (currently beta), as it allows a developer to test an iOS program in the real hardware without the need of an Apple Developer license. Android development tools are readily available. Qt integrates well with both. iOS uses CoreAudio just as OS X, Android uses tinyalsa, what makes easier to port RtAudio (if it's not already working). The tools are right here for us to use.
Multiple platforms have different form factors, resolutions and such (duh). To be shown in a meaningful usable way LMMS must adapt to such multitude of environments. 4K displays are becoming popular, and multiple-display setups are common in songwriting/production. Mobile songwriting is common nowadays too (Garage Band for iOS, FL Studio Mobile, Caustic, Xewton MusicStudio and so on), but we still have no easy way to be able to accommodate to both use cases while preserving feature parity and good usability. Mobile DAW apps are still "toys" for most purposes, lacking firepower and missing resources. This shouldn't be the case anymore. LMMS may change it for good.
LMMS should plan for HiDPI. A vectorial UI would help this a lot. KDE uses SVG for it (with cached PNG images). Qt support is planned for 5.6. 5.5 has partial support.
Qt4 will not receive updates. CopperSpice may be a dead end. Qt5 is where new development is coming from, so maybe it's time to embrace it wholeheartedly, not just making LMMS compatible with Qt5, but putting its "new" features to a good use. I don't know the status of the current LMMS code in these matters, but I'm somewhat assuming there's a lot of legacy because of the Plastik decorations. Come on. LMMS, UI-wise, is... "lovely". Let's spell it: "eff", "you", "gee", "ell", "why". "Lovely", as in "beaten with the lovely stick". It doesn't diminish its capabilities as a DAW, but an UI overhaul is long overdue. Plastik is KDE3. I was unable to find a theme selector. This UI rant is not for the sake of ranting, but because changing the UI of such a complex project like LMMS is a complex task, but one that would benefit LMMS and its users a lot. Qt5 offers UI HW acceleration, theming and animations with Qt Quick (faster than Qt Widgets). Changes in UI can be tested without recompiling the code(!). Theming is easier to implement, and an MVC model with LMMS core separated from the Views would allow better portability to other devices (different UIs for different form factors).
Another point is feature parity. Currently LMMS fails to act as expected in non-Linux platforms when dealing with MIDI, and displaying ZynAddSubFx. Audio on Windows is tricky (the device/backend selector behaves oddly, not saving settings in some circumstances, preventing LMMS from generating audio and sticking users in a "restart program" hell). I know these issues depend on other people, but enforcing feature parity (when reasonable) will lead to a smoother user experience across platforms.
There are other places of improvement and innovation: Undo/Redo, seamless editing across platforms (maybe allowing the use of some network storage solution like Dropbox, Mega to enable automatic project syncing), AVB/TSN, project spanned between multiple computers on a network, parallel editing, automatic channel freezing to allow editing more complex sessions on a less capable device, automatic plugin discovery/mangling/selection (being able to use the same plugin as an AU on Mac and a VST on Windows), downloadable content (audio patches, samples, soundfonts, themes) and so on.

I'll try to compile it for OS X and Windows this weekend, and do some exploration. If the idea of iOS and Android versions flourish I'll be able to put my hands on it too.


Best regards,


Cláudio Pinheiro

2015-06-12 13:06 GMT-03:00 Dave French <[hidden email]>:
Sufian 

Nice to see your intrested :)

We also have an irc channel on freenode #LMMS, if you have any questions.

Welcome.

On 12 June 2015 at 13:45, Tres Finocchiaro <[hidden email]> wrote:
@Sufian,

Thanks for chiming in.  We need the help!

We use QT for our GUI (and many other items).

  • If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt Creator and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.
  • If you're a kate/gedit/vi/emacs type coder, you can get started right away with the tutorials that @musikBear linked above
In regards to OS... are you on Linux, Mac or Windows?
  • Windows doesn't have a working build tutorial yet.  I tried for a few days and was unsuccessful.  Linux is currently recommended.  Ubuntu is the quickest platform to get started with.
  • Linux building is pretty straight forward on all distros so as long as you know your way around the package managers to meet dependencies.  Debian and Ubuntu are pretty much a copy and paste of commands to get started.
  • Mac building is pretty straight forward as well.  Homebrew will probably get you started faster than MacPorts, but our tutorial is still written around MacPorts, so you'd be fastest looking at this travis recipe.
In regards to patches, we use Pull Requests exclusively now.
  • If you're not familiar with PRs and GitHub, this might be your biggest battle at first
    • They allow us to comment and make tweaks before patches are merged
  • If you're already familiar with GitHub pull requests, you can get started now, just fork our main branch, master preferably.
In regards to what work to do... that is often the second biggest battle...
Hopefully that's enough to get you started.  Welcome. :)

-Tres




On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 6:19 AM, musikbear <[hidden email]> wrote:
This link
https://lmms.io/get-involved/
under 'Develop'
And this from the wiki
https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/wiki
about creating your own fork and repository, should give you first ideas.  I
am not sure everything is fully updated, but someone else will chime in, if
so :)



--
View this message in context: http://linux-multimedia-studio-lmms.996328.n3.nabble.com/How-to-get-started-tp11795p11796.html
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Re: How to get started

Cláudio Pinheiro
@Tres,


I'll try to help somewhat.
  • Loved the UI mock-ups. Oh my.
  • Being honest what caught me was the MIDI OS X bug, as it was something I sadly experienced. I'll take a look at it. I just need to clean up some free space.
  • "Lovely" :) When those mock-ups materialize, LMMS will be outstandingly gorgeous. S2 Me gusta S2
  • About Android: I work fixing bugs and customizing AOSP for a large Korean cell phone manufacturer. It involves a non-trivial amount of C++ code. I have to compile the complete Android source code on a daily basis, sometimes more than four times. Every time is about 45 minutes on a 24-core compilation server. SSH is my shell, Vim is my IDE, Repo is my lawyer, CTS is my judge. I believe you're aware of Android NDK and the fact that Qt supports it (and I'm telling it with solid knowledge and personal experience, as I develop cross platform software with Qt, deploying to Windows, Linux, OS X, iOS and Android). The Java-only idea some people have about Android is a myth.
  • About iOS, Section 5 of Apple's iPhone Developer Program License Agreement prohibits the distribution via App Store of programs with licenses that conflict with Apple's DRM (as used by the code signature), making it conflict against GPL(3)'s Section 6. That said, if you don't touch Apple's App Store you're safe. Distributing source code and compiling it at home are two completely legal endeavors. iOS 9 will allow use of audio plugins (synthesizers included).
  • Of course making LMMS be compilable and usable on iOS and Android is perfectly feasible, as there's no legal or technological impediment preventing it. The decision to make it happen is not mine, but it would be fantastic to have a good, powerful, usable and free (as in freedom) DAW allowing us to create and share seamlessly across all major desktop and mobile platforms. But I can dream, can't I?
  • Scaling for HiDPI displays will be done in Qt 5.6, and experimental in Qt 5.5 (just around the corner). Maybe moving in Qt's direction would be a wise choice.
  • SVG: Qt Quick/QML already offers support to it. If/when the Big UI Overhaul uses it, the SVG, theming and portability issues will be almost fixed by themselves, so to say.
In my humble opinion enforcing LMMS to compile against Qt5 will be an excellent goal that will allow further development in a faster pace. Exploiting Qt5's advancements will not generate a lot of fuss, as all major Linux distributions already come with it. KDE itself uses Qt5 since a long ago (I'm a KDE developer. I wrote Kopete's video support - both low-level image capture and protocol-level transmission).


Best regards,


Cláudio Pinheiro

2015-06-13 16:48 GMT-03:00 Tres Finocchiaro <[hidden email]>:
@Cláudio,

Thanks for chiming in.  We're well aware of the areas we need to improve on and the items you've pointed out are on our radar, but we need help making them happen.

I'd strongly suggest the next time you type up a long wish list, you make it a list, rather than a run-on paragraph.  It is very unlikely people will read your entire rant about LMMS.  It is about 10x too long given the content.

That said, you've asked about a few important items:

  • Qt theme - Yes some of the plastik-type items are built-in and not easy to change.  #1911 can hypothetically address that, but this is a 2+ year effort with no one starting on it.  #880 too.  Oh yeah, also #1839
  • Qt4 vs. Qt5 - We had it building with Qt5 a while ago, AFAIK, we just need someone to help in that area to make that work again.
  • MIDI on Windows - Windows works great, that part of your statement is incorrect.
  • MIDI on OSX - Needs help per #1153.  Please help if you can in this area.
  • "F", "U", "G", "L", "Y" - Piss off.
  • Undo/Redo - We're well aware.  1.2 will help immensely in this regard.  We're making progress per #1262, #1697, #1699 (and many others).
  • iOS/Android - No.  This is a very ignorant request to make. Android doesn't even use C++ for most of its operations (it uses Java).  iOS requires XCode for building and Apple's EULA goes against the GPL.  This simply won't happen with the LMMS codebase.
  • Hi-Res displays:  We're well aware of per: #455
  • SVG:  In the works per: #887#1891 and many others.  This is just a matter of rolling up our sleeves and doing it.  Probably a 2 month effort.
An all of that said, you're raising these requests on the mailing list, so they'll eventually get buried with time.  If there is something you feel is missing in our tracker, please open a new bug report (or add comments to one already opened).   If you know C++, get to work. :)

-Tres


On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Cláudio Pinheiro <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello there.


I'm Cláudio Pinheiro and I've been lurking here for some time (maybe to grab some courage to contribute).
I've been fiddling on and off with LMMS (I use some other DAWs for my stuff), and I feel it is already a great accomplishment. Of course there's still a lot to do, but no software is ever complete anyway. Tous mes compliments!
I'd like to ask some questions, if you don't mind. I beg you pardon in advance if some of my questions and comments may sound a bit off(ensive), please take them in a relaxed, good spirit as if coming from a close friend (that we aren't - yet) and with the best intentions. Pardon me too for my poor, non-native English grammar skills, and excuse me for mentioning other DAWs once in a while.

Let's start:


Can I use Qt5 or should I stick to Qt4?
What's up with those Plastik decorations? Are they themeable?
Is there any progress with MIDI IN for OS X/Windows?
Any plans for vectorial widgets and/or HiDPI support?
Any plans for more platforms?

Some things to take in consideration:
More platforms may be good. Caustic supports Win/Lin/OSX/iOS/Droid (the last two are paid versions), what's good but the software is a tad limited, something more powerful would be nice. LMMS may fit and even go way beyond. iOS development now is a lot easier witth XCode 7 (currently beta), as it allows a developer to test an iOS program in the real hardware without the need of an Apple Developer license. Android development tools are readily available. Qt integrates well with both. iOS uses CoreAudio just as OS X, Android uses tinyalsa, what makes easier to port RtAudio (if it's not already working). The tools are right here for us to use.
Multiple platforms have different form factors, resolutions and such (duh). To be shown in a meaningful usable way LMMS must adapt to such multitude of environments. 4K displays are becoming popular, and multiple-display setups are common in songwriting/production. Mobile songwriting is common nowadays too (Garage Band for iOS, FL Studio Mobile, Caustic, Xewton MusicStudio and so on), but we still have no easy way to be able to accommodate to both use cases while preserving feature parity and good usability. Mobile DAW apps are still "toys" for most purposes, lacking firepower and missing resources. This shouldn't be the case anymore. LMMS may change it for good.
LMMS should plan for HiDPI. A vectorial UI would help this a lot. KDE uses SVG for it (with cached PNG images). Qt support is planned for 5.6. 5.5 has partial support.
Qt4 will not receive updates. CopperSpice may be a dead end. Qt5 is where new development is coming from, so maybe it's time to embrace it wholeheartedly, not just making LMMS compatible with Qt5, but putting its "new" features to a good use. I don't know the status of the current LMMS code in these matters, but I'm somewhat assuming there's a lot of legacy because of the Plastik decorations. Come on. LMMS, UI-wise, is... "lovely". Let's spell it: "eff", "you", "gee", "ell", "why". "Lovely", as in "beaten with the lovely stick". It doesn't diminish its capabilities as a DAW, but an UI overhaul is long overdue. Plastik is KDE3. I was unable to find a theme selector. This UI rant is not for the sake of ranting, but because changing the UI of such a complex project like LMMS is a complex task, but one that would benefit LMMS and its users a lot. Qt5 offers UI HW acceleration, theming and animations with Qt Quick (faster than Qt Widgets). Changes in UI can be tested without recompiling the code(!). Theming is easier to implement, and an MVC model with LMMS core separated from the Views would allow better portability to other devices (different UIs for different form factors).
Another point is feature parity. Currently LMMS fails to act as expected in non-Linux platforms when dealing with MIDI, and displaying ZynAddSubFx. Audio on Windows is tricky (the device/backend selector behaves oddly, not saving settings in some circumstances, preventing LMMS from generating audio and sticking users in a "restart program" hell). I know these issues depend on other people, but enforcing feature parity (when reasonable) will lead to a smoother user experience across platforms.
There are other places of improvement and innovation: Undo/Redo, seamless editing across platforms (maybe allowing the use of some network storage solution like Dropbox, Mega to enable automatic project syncing), AVB/TSN, project spanned between multiple computers on a network, parallel editing, automatic channel freezing to allow editing more complex sessions on a less capable device, automatic plugin discovery/mangling/selection (being able to use the same plugin as an AU on Mac and a VST on Windows), downloadable content (audio patches, samples, soundfonts, themes) and so on.

I'll try to compile it for OS X and Windows this weekend, and do some exploration. If the idea of iOS and Android versions flourish I'll be able to put my hands on it too.


Best regards,


Cláudio Pinheiro

2015-06-12 13:06 GMT-03:00 Dave French <[hidden email]>:
Sufian 

Nice to see your intrested :)

We also have an irc channel on freenode #LMMS, if you have any questions.

Welcome.

On 12 June 2015 at 13:45, Tres Finocchiaro <[hidden email]> wrote:
@Sufian,

Thanks for chiming in.  We need the help!

We use QT for our GUI (and many other items).

  • If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt Creator and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.
  • If you're a kate/gedit/vi/emacs type coder, you can get started right away with the tutorials that @musikBear linked above
In regards to OS... are you on Linux, Mac or Windows?
  • Windows doesn't have a working build tutorial yet.  I tried for a few days and was unsuccessful.  Linux is currently recommended.  Ubuntu is the quickest platform to get started with.
  • Linux building is pretty straight forward on all distros so as long as you know your way around the package managers to meet dependencies.  Debian and Ubuntu are pretty much a copy and paste of commands to get started.
  • Mac building is pretty straight forward as well.  Homebrew will probably get you started faster than MacPorts, but our tutorial is still written around MacPorts, so you'd be fastest looking at this travis recipe.
In regards to patches, we use Pull Requests exclusively now.
  • If you're not familiar with PRs and GitHub, this might be your biggest battle at first
    • They allow us to comment and make tweaks before patches are merged
  • If you're already familiar with GitHub pull requests, you can get started now, just fork our main branch, master preferably.
In regards to what work to do... that is often the second biggest battle...
Hopefully that's enough to get you started.  Welcome. :)

-Tres




On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 6:19 AM, musikbear <[hidden email]> wrote:
This link
https://lmms.io/get-involved/
under 'Develop'
And this from the wiki
https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/wiki
about creating your own fork and repository, should give you first ideas.  I
am not sure everything is fully updated, but someone else will chime in, if
so :)



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Re: How to get started

Amadeus Folego
Hi Cláudio, I noticed by your name that you might be Brazilian.

If you are nearby São Paulo let me know that I can help you with a
hands-on approach.

Thanks, Amadeus.

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Re: How to get started

Tres Finocchiaro
> Being honest what caught me was the MIDI OS X bug, as it was something I sadly experienced. I'll take a look at it. I just need to clean up some free space.

Great.

>  When those mock-ups materialize, LMMS will be outstandingly gorgeous. S2 Me gusta S2

If they materialize, not when.

> The Java-only idea some people have about Android is a myth.

No one said "Java only".  Regardless, converting our interface for touch is the lowest of priorities.  I'm not sure why you are pressing this point.

>  if you don't touch Apple's App Store you're safe.

If you don't touch Apple's store, there's no real point in releasing the software.  

> it would be fantastic to have a good, powerful, usable and free (as in freedom) DAW allowing us to create and share seamlessly across all major desktop and mobile platforms. But I can dream, can't I?

Yes, but if you are a self-proclaimed expert on this topic, dreaming things that are not logical just causes confusion.

> Scaling for HiDPI displays will be done in Qt 5.6, and experimental in Qt 5.5 (just around the corner). Maybe moving in Qt's direction would be a wise choice.

QtLinguist already handles this well.

SVG: Qt Quick/QML already offers support to it. If/when the Big UI Overhaul uses it, the SVG, theming and portability issues will be almost fixed by themselves, so to say.

No, we don't need a GUI overheaul to start this and the decision.  We can use SVGs now.  No need to defer and no need to propose (or wait for) the entire GUI is switched to QML.

> In my humble opinion enforcing LMMS to compile against Qt5 will be an excellent goal that will allow further development in a faster pace. 

Then jump in and help. :)


On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Amadeus Folego <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Cláudio, I noticed by your name that you might be Brazilian.

If you are nearby São Paulo let me know that I can help you with a
hands-on approach.

Thanks, Amadeus.


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Re: How to get started

Cláudio Pinheiro
In reply to this post by Amadeus Folego
Hi, Amadeus, I live in Fortaleza, Ceará. Not quite nearby, but at least we speak Portuguese. Do you have a Tim? :) My Skype contact is my e-mail. Feel free to add me.
Right now I'm setting up the development environment on OS X (using homebrew). I hope everything will be fine when I get home. Some help with the code will be greatly appreciated.


Valeu a força!


Cláudio

Em segunda-feira, 15 de junho de 2015, Amadeus Folego <[hidden email]> escreveu:
Hi Cláudio, I noticed by your name that you might be Brazilian.

If you are nearby São Paulo let me know that I can help you with a
hands-on approach.

Thanks, Amadeus.

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Re: How to get started

Amadeus Folego
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 09:48:52AM -0300, Cláudio Pinheiro wrote:
> Hi, Amadeus, I live in Fortaleza, Ceará. Not quite nearby, but at least we
> speak Portuguese. Do you have a Tim? :) My Skype contact is my e-mail. Feel
> free to add me.
> Right now I'm setting up the development environment on OS X (using homebrew).
> I hope everything will be fine when I get home. Some help with the code will be
> greatly appreciated.
>
>
> Valeu a força!

Hi Cláudio, added on Skype.

Até mais! :-)

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Re: How to get started

Cláudio Pinheiro
In reply to this post by Tres Finocchiaro
Hi, Tres, all,



2015-06-15 9:30 GMT-03:00 Tres Finocchiaro <[hidden email]>:
> Being honest what caught me was the MIDI OS X bug, as it was something I sadly experienced. I'll take a look at it. I just need to clean up some free space.

Great.

I'm setting the development environment on OS X. I'll take a look at it soon.
 

>  When those mock-ups materialize, LMMS will be outstandingly gorgeous. S2 Me gusta S2

If they materialize, not when.

It's on our hands.
 

> The Java-only idea some people have about Android is a myth.

No one said "Java only".  Regardless, converting our interface for touch is the lowest of priorities.  I'm not sure why you are pressing this point.

Just a pet peeve. In fact I miss a DAW with such characteristics (portability, availability, power, interoperability, built-in collaboration).
Please don't understand what I said as a pressure. But just as something I believe some people would like to have, just like me. If enough people find it useful and desirable, sometime someone will write support to it.
I'm aware there's a lot of way more important things to do right now, and maybe I'll be able to help and not just talk. Time will tell.
 

>  if you don't touch Apple's App Store you're safe.

If you don't touch Apple's store, there's no real point in releasing the software.

Some people may disagree with you. Of course it would not be everyone that could walk the extra mile and compile him/herself, but being able to would be a nice feature, don't you think?
 
> it would be fantastic to have a good, powerful, usable and free (as in freedom) DAW allowing us to create and share seamlessly across all major desktop and mobile platforms. But I can dream, can't I?

Yes, but if you are a self-proclaimed expert on this topic, dreaming things that are not logical just causes confusion.

I didn't proclaim anything. I just said that I have working experience with it, so I'm saying what I find logical and feasible according to my knowledge. I'm not saying it will be easy or done in no time, and even less that everybody should ignore their tasks and follow me to Eldorado. I just brought to light some ideas I believe have some positive value, and bringing them and the answers to it help me to better understand LMMS's dev team and how I can fit in.


> Scaling for HiDPI displays will be done in Qt 5.6, and experimental in Qt 5.5 (just around the corner). Maybe moving in Qt's direction would be a wise choice.

QtLinguist already handles this well.

I claim no contest.
 

SVG: Qt Quick/QML already offers support to it. If/when the Big UI Overhaul uses it, the SVG, theming and portability issues will be almost fixed by themselves, so to say.

No, we don't need a GUI overheaul to start this and the decision.  We can use SVGs now.  No need to defer and no need to propose (or wait for) the entire GUI is switched to QML.

Yes, LMMS can use, just as KDE4 used to. My point was using Qt 5 features would allow LMMS to handle such issues in a simpler, clearer, more compatible way. Of course I understand too that rewriting a GUI is having a lot of work and spending a huge amount of time to reach the point you already are, and most times such effort is unjustified. WireShark did switch from GTK+ to Qt because it would help them further, Inkscape sticks to GTK+ because they don't see a real gain in changing UI libraries. LibreOffice is still migrating from Gtk+2 to Gtk+3. You can justify it according to your goals and the effort needed to implement it. Migrating from Qt Widgets to QML has some valid points:
  • Qt Widgets on Qt 5 is frozen (by Digia's will) and will not receive updates. All the new and improved stuff will be implemented in QML support.
  • QML has 2D and 3D accelerated rendering support, which lacks on Widgets. Porting to QML, even if it is interpreted, may represent performance gains in UI. I don't have hard, cold data to corroborate it, but Digia claims it's the case.
  • QML and Qt Widgets can coexist. Porting may be done at a calmer pace, and no loss of functionality or usability would happen. Changes could come gradually. New UI elements should be implemented via QML.
  • Implementing UI features as SVG support, themeability seems to be done in a simpler fashion with QML. Restructuring all the UI, if some theme writer so wishes, would be feasible.
  • With the proper MVC implementation and low level platform support in place, porting to other platforms would be a matter of simply writing a theme adapted to the target form factor.
But as everybody knows, there are more important issues to be fixed right now. But having some perspective and spotting certain bogeys on radar is healthy.
 
> In my humble opinion enforcing LMMS to compile against Qt5 will be an excellent goal that will allow further development in a faster pace. 

Then jump in and help. :)

/me jumps doing a "duplo mortal carpado" (double twist L-shaped jump - "if I don't die on the spot maybe I'll walk again in some years - hopefully"-kind of jump)
 


On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Amadeus Folego <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Cláudio, I noticed by your name that you might be Brazilian.

If you are nearby São Paulo let me know that I can help you with a
hands-on approach.

Thanks, Amadeus.



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Re: How to get started

musikbear
In reply to this post by Tres Finocchiaro
Tres Finocchiaro wrote
   - If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube
   video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt Creator
   and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.
Do you have a yT link?

a different and also ambiguous Q, cause it will be entirely HW related, but how long does a

* Simple compile to sanity-test (no errors in syntax) able to test a new feature
* Full build of valid executable

of lmms for windows take?
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Re: How to get started

Tres Finocchiaro
Tres Finocchiaro wrote
>    - If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube
>    video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt
> Creator
>    and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.
Do you have a yT link?
a different and also ambiguous Q, cause it will be /entirely HW related/,
but how long does a
* Simple compile to sanity-test (no errors in syntax) able to test a new
feature
* Full build of valid executable
of lmms for windows take?

This email is almost unreadable, but I think what you are asking is:

> [Paraphrased] Where are these tutorials for setting up Qt Creator?
 
Ask Dave.  They're currently private, so he needs to make that call.  I shared them privately with Claudio just to get him started.

> [Paraphrased] How hard to build on an actual Windows machine.
 
Quite difficult actually, but not for the reasons you might think.  The whole CMD vs. Cygwin vs. Msys is quite the struggle currently and there are some incompatibilities with Visual Studio versus gcc.   We managed to get all of the DLLs downloaded and extracted from Toby's PPA onto a Windows machine, but we need some help to get this working.  Here's where we last left off (please mirror this and enhance it if you'd like)


On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:39 PM, musikbear <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tres Finocchiaro wrote
>    - If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube
>    video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt
> Creator
>    and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.

Do you have a yT link?

a different and also ambiguous Q, cause it will be /entirely HW related/,
but how long does a

* Simple compile to sanity-test (no errors in syntax) able to test a new
feature
* Full build of valid executable

of lmms for windows take?




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Re: How to get started

Dave French
> [Paraphrased] Where are these tutorials for setting up Qt Creator?


These are my first attempt at a tutorial video so are not of the best quality, 

If these are useful, I am happy for them to be used where ever needed.




On 15 June 2015 at 18:25, Tres Finocchiaro <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tres Finocchiaro wrote
>    - If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube
>    video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt
> Creator
>    and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.
Do you have a yT link?
a different and also ambiguous Q, cause it will be /entirely HW related/,
but how long does a
* Simple compile to sanity-test (no errors in syntax) able to test a new
feature
* Full build of valid executable
of lmms for windows take?

This email is almost unreadable, but I think what you are asking is:

> [Paraphrased] Where are these tutorials for setting up Qt Creator?
 
Ask Dave.  They're currently private, so he needs to make that call.  I shared them privately with Claudio just to get him started.

> [Paraphrased] How hard to build on an actual Windows machine.
 
Quite difficult actually, but not for the reasons you might think.  The whole CMD vs. Cygwin vs. Msys is quite the struggle currently and there are some incompatibilities with Visual Studio versus gcc.   We managed to get all of the DLLs downloaded and extracted from Toby's PPA onto a Windows machine, but we need some help to get this working.  Here's where we last left off (please mirror this and enhance it if you'd like)


On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:39 PM, musikbear <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tres Finocchiaro wrote
>    - If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube
>    video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt
> Creator
>    and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.

Do you have a yT link?

a different and also ambiguous Q, cause it will be /entirely HW related/,
but how long does a

* Simple compile to sanity-test (no errors in syntax) able to test a new
feature
* Full build of valid executable

of lmms for windows take?




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Re: How to get started

Cláudio Pinheiro
Thanks a lot!

Em segunda-feira, 15 de junho de 2015, Dave French <[hidden email]> escreveu:
> [Paraphrased] Where are these tutorials for setting up Qt Creator?


These are my first attempt at a tutorial video so are not of the best quality, 

If these are useful, I am happy for them to be used where ever needed.




On 15 June 2015 at 18:25, Tres Finocchiaro <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;tres.finocchiaro@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">tres.finocchiaro@...> wrote:
Tres Finocchiaro wrote
>    - If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube
>    video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt
> Creator
>    and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.
Do you have a yT link?
a different and also ambiguous Q, cause it will be /entirely HW related/,
but how long does a
* Simple compile to sanity-test (no errors in syntax) able to test a new
feature
* Full build of valid executable
of lmms for windows take?

This email is almost unreadable, but I think what you are asking is:

> [Paraphrased] Where are these tutorials for setting up Qt Creator?
 
Ask Dave.  They're currently private, so he needs to make that call.  I shared them privately with Claudio just to get him started.

> [Paraphrased] How hard to build on an actual Windows machine.
 
Quite difficult actually, but not for the reasons you might think.  The whole CMD vs. Cygwin vs. Msys is quite the struggle currently and there are some incompatibilities with Visual Studio versus gcc.   We managed to get all of the DLLs downloaded and extracted from Toby's PPA onto a Windows machine, but we need some help to get this working.  Here's where we last left off (please mirror this and enhance it if you'd like)

- <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">Tres.Finocchiaro@...

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:39 PM, musikbear <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;mkrus18@hotmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">mkrus18@...> wrote:
Tres Finocchiaro wrote
>    - If you're an IDE-type person, Dave French @curlymorphic had a YouTube
>    video he sent me a while back which outlined how to configure Qt
> Creator
>    and CMake to get LMMS to build in an IDE.

Do you have a yT link?

a different and also ambiguous Q, cause it will be /entirely HW related/,
but how long does a

* Simple compile to sanity-test (no errors in syntax) able to test a new
feature
* Full build of valid executable

of lmms for windows take?




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Re: How to get started

musikbear
In reply to this post by Dave French
Dave French wrote
>
These are my first attempt at a tutorial video so are not of the best
quality,
I found it very interesting -Thanks!
Loading...