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So...

diiz
I was a bit bored, had nothing better to do, so I started making this little thing...




But, well, we already have so many synths - too many, some say... so, should I commit this in LMMS or just keep it for my personal use? Is there any use or demand for this kind of thing?



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Re: So...

giakka96@hotmail.it
Seems cool, but this would be the third TripleOscillator-like synth xD
Just, let's release the other new one you made, see what are its problems, and then work on them... I think...


Il 29/03/2014 18:37, Vesa ha scritto:
I was a bit bored, had nothing better to do, so I started making this little thing...




But, well, we already have so many synths - too many, some say... so, should I commit this in LMMS or just keep it for my personal use? Is there any use or demand for this kind of thing?




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Re: So...

diiz
On 03/29/2014 07:51 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
Seems cool, but this would be the third TripleOscillator-like synth

Oh ok, I guess I'll just keep it for myself then.

No biggie then.

It's nothing like triple osc though... and neither is Watsyn. All of them function in very different ways and principles...

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Re: So...

nsk-5
30.03.2014 0:54, Vesa пишет:
> Oh ok, I guess I'll just keep it for myself then.
>
> No biggie then.
No, it does not need it to him .. Well, let it sit and without it.
And I would very much like a pair of new synthesizers!

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Re: So...

nsk-5
In reply to this post by diiz
30.03.2014 0:54, Vesa пишет:
On 03/29/2014 07:51 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
Seems cool, but this would be the third TripleOscillator-like synth

Oh ok, I guess I'll just keep it for myself then.

No biggie then.

It's nothing like triple osc though... and neither is Watsyn. All of them function in very different ways and principles...


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I would even say it is very stupid to give up a pair of new synths just because they are supposedly very similar on existing ones.

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Re: So...

Israel-28
I don't think there is such a things as too many...
It might be nice, though to make something that can be used in more projects as well.
It might be nice to have the ability to use it as a stand-alone plugin as well.
Of course.... if there are lots and lots of new awesome plugins it might be nice to be able to install these as separate things.

Basically I think if you made it it should be possible for everyone to use, but maybe we need some sort of system to add extra plugins.

On 03/29/2014 01:15 PM, baza wrote:
30.03.2014 0:54, Vesa пишет:
On 03/29/2014 07:51 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
Seems cool, but this would be the third TripleOscillator-like synth

Oh ok, I guess I'll just keep it for myself then.

No biggie then.

It's nothing like triple osc though... and neither is Watsyn. All of them function in very different ways and principles...


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I would even say it is very stupid to give up a pair of new synths just because they are supposedly very similar on existing ones.


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Re: So...

David Gerard-2
On 29 March 2014 18:22, Israel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't think there is such a things as too many...


You know what I'd like? A short manual for every synth and every
filter plugin in LMMS. What the hell are half these things for? What
do the numbers you enter mean? "Enter a number between 0.001 and
0.345". Um, OK, what does each of these values do?


- d.

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Re: So...

Israel-28
On 03/29/2014 01:24 PM, David Gerard wrote:

> On 29 March 2014 18:22, Israel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I don't think there is such a things as too many...
>
> You know what I'd like? A short manual for every synth and every
> filter plugin in LMMS. What the hell are half these things for? What
> do the numbers you enter mean? "Enter a number between 0.001 and
> 0.345". Um, OK, what does each of these values do?
>
>
> - d.
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Excellent Idea!!
Maybe we should have it included in both the help menu, and also in the wiki

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Re: So...

Uroš Maravić
In reply to this post by diiz
I think that we really dont have too much synths. Variety is good. I will be sad if you dont commit this synth :(

Best regards, 
Uroš


On 29 March 2014 18:37, Vesa <[hidden email]> wrote:
I was a bit bored, had nothing better to do, so I started making this little thing...




But, well, we already have so many synths - too many, some say... so, should I commit this in LMMS or just keep it for my personal use? Is there any use or demand for this kind of thing?



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Re: So...

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Israel-28
On 29 March 2014 18:26, Israel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 03/29/2014 01:24 PM, David Gerard wrote:

>> You know what I'd like? A short manual for every synth and every
>> filter plugin in LMMS. What the hell are half these things for? What
>> do the numbers you enter mean? "Enter a number between 0.001 and
>> 0.345". Um, OK, what does each of these values do?

> Excellent Idea!!
> Maybe we should have it included in both the help menu, and also in the wiki


The synths have basic coverage. There's one page on the LADSPA
plugins, which says they exist and how to apply the basic LMMS
controls:

http://lmms.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/0.4:Working_with_LADSPA_effects

- but a lot of them have mystery controls. The original sites have
some documentation, but yeah, we need to add how the heck to use these
things.

To keep it on-topic and not hijack Vesa's thread: any new instrument
or plugin should have the controls documented on the wiki :-)


- d.

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Re: So...

Tres Finocchiaro
In reply to this post by diiz

On my monitors, that left instrument pane still has plenty of room. :)


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Re: So...

Jonathan Aquilina
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2

I think we should make all these synths optional downloads. We upload them to the new site with a sample sound. Then one can download and easily install them within lmms

On 29 Mar 2014 19:40, "David Gerard" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 29 March 2014 18:26, Israel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 03/29/2014 01:24 PM, David Gerard wrote:

>> You know what I'd like? A short manual for every synth and every
>> filter plugin in LMMS. What the hell are half these things for? What
>> do the numbers you enter mean? "Enter a number between 0.001 and
>> 0.345". Um, OK, what does each of these values do?

> Excellent Idea!!
> Maybe we should have it included in both the help menu, and also in the wiki


The synths have basic coverage. There's one page on the LADSPA
plugins, which says they exist and how to apply the basic LMMS
controls:

http://lmms.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/0.4:Working_with_LADSPA_effects

- but a lot of them have mystery controls. The original sites have
some documentation, but yeah, we need to add how the heck to use these
things.

To keep it on-topic and not hijack Vesa's thread: any new instrument
or plugin should have the controls documented on the wiki :-)


- d.

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Re: So...

Tres Finocchiaro

Installing them separately makes most sense when dozens of separate projects are implementing and maintaining their own, such as with  Pidgin.

What really makes these instruments plugins valuable to our community is the sounds they can make, and that usually means a good preset collection.

I don't think its fair to disclude a good instrument simply because it showed up late to the game.

From a prioritization standpoint more instrument plugins can appear a bit.... well...  frivolous, over some more demanded features.   This is moot though because prioritizing volunteer contributions from around the world is particularly difficult.

I would really enjoy getting a "Will Godfrey" (zyn preset collection author) on our team from a preset perspective as I think it would really help put tangible substance around the potential of these new plugins.  Hope that doesn't come off as a rant... :)


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Re: So...

grejppi
Perhaps we should include just a basic set of bundled plugins, and offer the rest as separate downloads.

Another thing: as many Linux distros have their own packages for the various LADSPA sets, LMMS could do a similar thing with the LADSPA plugins on Windows. 

Then there could always be the option to download all as one package, like many other DAW makers do. (Ableton Suite, etc)

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Re: So...

Jonathan Aquilina

I agree with providing a basic set of plugins. The rest are downloaded and installed. Do we have an easy way to allow users to setup other plugins etc

On 29 Mar 2014 21:21, "Hannu Haahti" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Perhaps we should include just a basic set of bundled plugins, and offer the rest as separate downloads.

Another thing: as many Linux distros have their own packages for the various LADSPA sets, LMMS could do a similar thing with the LADSPA plugins on Windows. 

Then there could always be the option to download all as one package, like many other DAW makers do. (Ableton Suite, etc)

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Re: So...

Tres Finocchiaro
In reply to this post by grejppi


On Mar 29, 2014 4:21 PM, "Hannu Haahti" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Perhaps we should include just a basic set of bundled plugins, and offer the rest as separate downloads.

So on top of offering pre-built binaries for the application (which we are already behind on for Linux) you want the same for plugins?  I don't think those requesting this completely understand the implications of this request from a compiling and hosting and management perspective.  :)


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Re: So...

Jonathan Aquilina

Im not advocating a new package. These should be easily compileable on linux and mac and on Windows easily importable into the program

On 29 Mar 2014 21:52, "Tres Finocchiaro" <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mar 29, 2014 4:21 PM, "Hannu Haahti" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Perhaps we should include just a basic set of bundled plugins, and offer the rest as separate downloads.

So on top of offering pre-built binaries for the application (which we are already behind on for Linux) you want the same for plugins?  I don't think those requesting this completely understand the implications of this request from a compiling and hosting and management perspective.  :)


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Re: So...

diiz
In reply to this post by Jonathan Aquilina
On 03/29/2014 10:42 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
>
> I agree with providing a basic set of plugins.
>

Well, there's one thing we're all forgetting here (except me, because
I'm saying it now).

Lots of people like LMMS because it offers the best possibilities for
collaboration. Users can expect that the plugins that come bundled with
LMMS are present on all standard LMMS installations - we provide a sort
of "standard base" that everyone can build their LMMS installation upon.
And the "standard base" is already powerful enough that many people are
capable of producing great songs with it.

You want to make some of our plugins DLC? Well then, you might as well
just kill the sharing platform. At least the songs portion of it. No
one's going to bother going through songs with lists of dependencies
with them "to play this song, you need x and y and z"...

Another thing is, what's with this idea of killing plugins when we have
something like 12 of them? What's the logic here? Every professional DAW
comes with a good sized collection of native plugins, they're the
calling card and trump card of that particular DAW, something to
differentiate on. I could see the point if we had a 100 native
instruments. I could see the problem if people were complaining it takes
too much time to download LMMS because of the massive plugin library.
But we have less than 15 of them.

What's the point of bundling 6-7 instruments, then tell the users to
download 6-7 more separately? I don't see who this would benefit and in
what way.

One instrument plugin takes at most 1MB of disk space in binary form -
even less in source form. So what exactly are we trying to accomplish
here? To provide a worse experience for the user?

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Re: So...

Tres Finocchiaro
In reply to this post by Jonathan Aquilina

Im not advocating a new package. These should be easily compileable on linux and mac and on Windows easily importable into the program

This depends on your definition of "easy".

SoundFonts and Win32 VSTs are easy from the perspective you get a music instrument that works on Windows and Linux, 32bit and 64bit (Wine dependent on Linux of course).  People often still refuse to use them though due to their large file size, performance issues, compatibility issues, etc.

Unless you are volunteering yourself to build these separately for the project, maintain download links them, and provide support for installing them (on say, a wiki that has major issues), then this idea of downloadable native plugins won't happen.

To Vesa's point, these don't take up a lot of space when installed, and the interface has some available room (the instrument plugins pane shrinks and expands well to screen size).

I vote yes, please include once we have a few presets to play with! :)

-Tres



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Re: So...

Israel-28
On 03/29/2014 04:06 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:

Im not advocating a new package. These should be easily compileable on linux and mac and on Windows easily importable into the program

This depends on your definition of "easy".

SoundFonts and Win32 VSTs are easy from the perspective you get a music instrument that works on Windows and Linux, 32bit and 64bit (Wine dependent on Linux of course).  People often still refuse to use them though due to their large file size, performance issues, compatibility issues, etc.

Unless you are volunteering yourself to build these separately for the project, maintain download links them, and provide support for installing them (on say, a wiki that has major issues), then this idea of downloadable native plugins won't happen.

To Vesa's point, these don't take up a lot of space when installed, and the interface has some available room (the instrument plugins pane shrinks and expands well to screen size).

I vote yes, please include once we have a few presets to play with! :)

-Tres


This is all very valid.
I think if there becomes a point when LMMS has MANY plugins we should ship them separately, and should allow easy installation.  I was thinking a bit more in the future.  One more synth bundled is fairly negligible.  Once there are 40 +- plugins we should bundle.  So, we should at least consider how feasible it would be to make an easy to install/download system.  one extra synth should just be included.  Limiting plugins is not a good idea UNLESS we get a lot.  Then we should think of making something like lmms-extra-plugins package, or some cross platform solution to the plugins.  It would be nice to make the plugins independant of LMMS to use in other things (like LADSPA)  Run WattSyn through Guitarix to get an awesome moog guitar sound.... 
Just thoughts... feel free to disagree or point out something I am missing :)

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