Testing by semi/professional artists?

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Testing by semi/professional artists?

Spekular R

I've had this idea for a while but haven't pitched it, because I don't think now is the time to do it. Of course pitching it doesn't mean it has to be done immediately though, and this way I can get feedback on it, so here goes.

I'm thinking that perhaps we could contact semi/professional musicians who produce in other DAWs and see if they would be willing to try out or even produce a song in LMMS. Since they're probably very familiar woth their DAWs, they should be able to provide feedback on what sort of features they're (hopefully not) missing in LMMS.

Of course one issue with this is that at the moment, we have tons of requests, features, bugs, and so on that are "on the radar" or "planned for 2.0", and it's not exactly useful for artists to tell us what we already know. That's why I've been considering this as a post 2.0 initiative, so we know what to work on next.

Another issue is the possible negative effect this could have on LMMS's image if done wrong (which is the main reason I'm asking for your opinions). I'm thinking of a text along the lines of "Hi! The open source DAW LMMS recently hit version X.Y, and I'm wondering if you'd be willing to test it and give some feedback on what we should work on next". What are your thoughts on this?

As for which artists to ask, personally I was thinking of some monstercat artists (you've probably never heard of monstercat, it's VERY secret, and exclusive /s). This is because:
1. I like their music.
2. I think they're at the right balance between "big" (professional feedback) and "small" (easy to contact/get a response)
3. I'm feel like/think there's a higher concentration of people who are interested in producing in the Monstercat fanbase than in, say, the Avicii fanbase. I'm not sure of this, it's just a hunch.
Of course if we do this I think more people than just me should reach out to their own personal favorites so we get a larger sample size/variance.

So, what do you think?


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Re: Testing by semi/professional artists?

DeRobyJ (giakkaHotmail surrogate)
I like the idea!
I agree that we should do it after most of the bugs and common features (MIDI, just to say one) are live.

By the way, these monstercat artists, what kind of genre do they produce? Are they fixed in one or not? I believe that some genres are easier to do with some programs...


Il 06/05/2015 18:36, Spekular R ha scritto:

I've had this idea for a while but haven't pitched it, because I don't think now is the time to do it. Of course pitching it doesn't mean it has to be done immediately though, and this way I can get feedback on it, so here goes.

I'm thinking that perhaps we could contact semi/professional musicians who produce in other DAWs and see if they would be willing to try out or even produce a song in LMMS. Since they're probably very familiar woth their DAWs, they should be able to provide feedback on what sort of features they're (hopefully not) missing in LMMS.

Of course one issue with this is that at the moment, we have tons of requests, features, bugs, and so on that are "on the radar" or "planned for 2.0", and it's not exactly useful for artists to tell us what we already know. That's why I've been considering this as a post 2.0 initiative, so we know what to work on next.

Another issue is the possible negative effect this could have on LMMS's image if done wrong (which is the main reason I'm asking for your opinions). I'm thinking of a text along the lines of "Hi! The open source DAW LMMS recently hit version X.Y, and I'm wondering if you'd be willing to test it and give some feedback on what we should work on next". What are your thoughts on this?

As for which artists to ask, personally I was thinking of some monstercat artists (you've probably never heard of monstercat, it's VERY secret, and exclusive /s). This is because:
1. I like their music.
2. I think they're at the right balance between "big" (professional feedback) and "small" (easy to contact/get a response)
3. I'm feel like/think there's a higher concentration of people who are interested in producing in the Monstercat fanbase than in, say, the Avicii fanbase. I'm not sure of this, it's just a hunch.
Of course if we do this I think more people than just me should reach out to their own personal favorites so we get a larger sample size/variance.

So, what do you think?



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Re: Testing by semi/professional artists?

Tres Finocchiaro
In reply to this post by Spekular R
I like the idea of celebrity plugs, but I think we need to be celebrity worthy first.

Our -- albeit terrific -- DAW lacks many basic professional grade features and tools which should be implemented prior to any celebrity endorsement.

Furthermore, we have dozens of producers right now that have the capacity and talent to become big name musicians.

Lastly, switching DAWs is tremendously difficult and time consuming. It takes months (not days) and it is something we should be very careful not to be too pushy about IMO.

My opinion has always been that if we make our product good enough, it will speak for itself.  I tend to favor that approach and let the Best Of LMMS v1 and v2 winners do the showcasing for us.

-Tres


On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Spekular R <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've had this idea for a while but haven't pitched it, because I don't think now is the time to do it. Of course pitching it doesn't mean it has to be done immediately though, and this way I can get feedback on it, so here goes.

I'm thinking that perhaps we could contact semi/professional musicians who produce in other DAWs and see if they would be willing to try out or even produce a song in LMMS. Since they're probably very familiar woth their DAWs, they should be able to provide feedback on what sort of features they're (hopefully not) missing in LMMS.

Of course one issue with this is that at the moment, we have tons of requests, features, bugs, and so on that are "on the radar" or "planned for 2.0", and it's not exactly useful for artists to tell us what we already know. That's why I've been considering this as a post 2.0 initiative, so we know what to work on next.

Another issue is the possible negative effect this could have on LMMS's image if done wrong (which is the main reason I'm asking for your opinions). I'm thinking of a text along the lines of "Hi! The open source DAW LMMS recently hit version X.Y, and I'm wondering if you'd be willing to test it and give some feedback on what we should work on next". What are your thoughts on this?

As for which artists to ask, personally I was thinking of some monstercat artists (you've probably never heard of monstercat, it's VERY secret, and exclusive /s). This is because:
1. I like their music.
2. I think they're at the right balance between "big" (professional feedback) and "small" (easy to contact/get a response)
3. I'm feel like/think there's a higher concentration of people who are interested in producing in the Monstercat fanbase than in, say, the Avicii fanbase. I'm not sure of this, it's just a hunch.
Of course if we do this I think more people than just me should reach out to their own personal favorites so we get a larger sample size/variance.

So, what do you think?


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Re: Testing by semi/professional artists?

Tres Finocchiaro
In reply to this post by DeRobyJ (giakkaHotmail surrogate)
As far as asking professionals what features they need... Just produce a full song with LMMS and you can make a laundry list yourself.  I'm not sure we need this fed to us again, personally.  I think our existing community does a terrific job filling out hundreds of bug reports.  Priority tracking and development is what we need, not more conversation, IMO. :)


On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 12:44 PM, DeRobyJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like the idea!
I agree that we should do it after most of the bugs and common features (MIDI, just to say one) are live.

By the way, these monstercat artists, what kind of genre do they produce? Are they fixed in one or not? I believe that some genres are easier to do with some programs...



Il 06/05/2015 18:36, Spekular R ha scritto:

I've had this idea for a while but haven't pitched it, because I don't think now is the time to do it. Of course pitching it doesn't mean it has to be done immediately though, and this way I can get feedback on it, so here goes.

I'm thinking that perhaps we could contact semi/professional musicians who produce in other DAWs and see if they would be willing to try out or even produce a song in LMMS. Since they're probably very familiar woth their DAWs, they should be able to provide feedback on what sort of features they're (hopefully not) missing in LMMS.

Of course one issue with this is that at the moment, we have tons of requests, features, bugs, and so on that are "on the radar" or "planned for 2.0", and it's not exactly useful for artists to tell us what we already know. That's why I've been considering this as a post 2.0 initiative, so we know what to work on next.

Another issue is the possible negative effect this could have on LMMS's image if done wrong (which is the main reason I'm asking for your opinions). I'm thinking of a text along the lines of "Hi! The open source DAW LMMS recently hit version X.Y, and I'm wondering if you'd be willing to test it and give some feedback on what we should work on next". What are your thoughts on this?

As for which artists to ask, personally I was thinking of some monstercat artists (you've probably never heard of monstercat, it's VERY secret, and exclusive /s). This is because:
1. I like their music.
2. I think they're at the right balance between "big" (professional feedback) and "small" (easy to contact/get a response)
3. I'm feel like/think there's a higher concentration of people who are interested in producing in the Monstercat fanbase than in, say, the Avicii fanbase. I'm not sure of this, it's just a hunch.
Of course if we do this I think more people than just me should reach out to their own personal favorites so we get a larger sample size/variance.

So, what do you think?



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Re: Testing by semi/professional artists?

Spekular R

@DeRobyJ different/most EDM genres. They've got a playlist for each genre they specifically categorize, and one for uncategorized, along with the fact that some songs get put in a genre they don't entirely fit in, so they cover quite a bit of ground.

@tresf I definitely understand. That's why I've kept it reserved,  for when LMMS is more stable/mature and in case development were to slow down due to a lack of issues ( as if ;) ).


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Re: Testing by semi/professional artists?

Greg
In reply to this post by Tres Finocchiaro
On Wed, May 06, 2015 at 12:46:41PM -0400, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:
>My opinion has always been that if we make our product good enough, it will
>speak for itself.  I tend to favor that approach and let the Best Of LMMS
>v1 and v2 winners do the showcasing for us.

Anecdote/analogy time: I remember years ago when one of the members of my
music group submitted our album to a panel of professional reviewers. The awful
thing was that it was done on our behalf but without our knowledge, and the
music director and I shared some very concerned looks when the submitter told
us. I did all of the production on the album and knew exactly all of its flaws
(members and production combined) - we weren't trying to compete with the pro
level groups; we were trying to make something we could be independently proud
of.

To this day, of course, there are published scathing reviews of something I
spent an awful lot of energy on that make me look like a jackass, simply
because it was presented as something it wasn't intended to be. If we had run
out of things to fix, that would have been a great time to ask for reviews. ;)
I still wonder how many opportunities we lost because of those reviews.

TLDR; what the other guy said. :D

There are reviews of LMMS out there, and I think it's important to understand
that there will always BE new reviews posted with every major release; if there's
too much silence, a plan to create more publicity/action items would help stoke
the fire, but IMHO that's probably not needed for a long time.

-g


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Re: Testing by semi/professional artists?

musikbear
In reply to this post by Tres Finocchiaro
Tres Finocchiaro wrote
Lastly, switching DAWs is tremendously difficult and time consuming. It
takes months (not days) and it is something we should be very careful not
to be too pushy about IMO.
Exactly right. In order for a 'celeb' to give a valid feedback, he would have to put in a lot of time. It would not benefit anyone, if he diddent.
Im 100% for usecases of any kind!
Usecases are the most important step in software development.
Lmms should definately try to get usecases with both complete daw novices, and experienced daw users /profs, (like the one you suggest)

I did an usecase hour with a cousin (complete daw novice), but had no response when posted about it, last year.
 
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Re: Testing by semi/professional artists?

Tres Finocchiaro

I did an usecase hour with a cousin (complete daw novice), but had no response when posted about it, last year.

So as long as we have broken sample-track support and incomplete undo support, we'll have a hard time being taken seriously by professional producers.  These are basic features that any producer has learned to expect.

This is part of why the 2.0 initiative is hard to get buy-in for.  There's nothing sexy about rewriting the core.  No one gets excited when the foundation of a house needs to be replaced, but without it, the whole thing can come crumbling down. :) 




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