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collaborato

oeai-2
once, i thought of collaboration platform on lmms base (was discussed once)
so i thought that those files can be uploaded to git and that git repo
could be a part of interface for open projects and same scheme could be
used for instrument presets, but it should be sorted for few projects or
maybe branches, to download separate sound packs or browse music styles.
this will solve also the generic song problem - most downloaded song can
be used for all.

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Re: collaborato

Jonathan Aquilina
That is the whole goal of LSP. to provide a sharing platform for presets etc



On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:27 PM, oeai <[hidden email]> wrote:
once, i thought of collaboration platform on lmms base (was discussed once)
so i thought that those files can be uploaded to git and that git repo
could be a part of interface for open projects and same scheme could be
used for instrument presets, but it should be sorted for few projects or
maybe branches, to download separate sound packs or browse music styles.
this will solve also the generic song problem - most downloaded song can
be used for all.

--
Symbiants
oe ai


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Re: collaborato

oeai-2
well, the thing was to modify presets and see it changes.
does lsp have api to use in lmms without browser?

On 28.04.2014 17:30, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:

> That is the whole goal of LSP. to provide a sharing platform for
> presets etc
>
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Re: collaborato

Jonathan Aquilina
The way things currently work for presets you save them to a file. Having an api will take alot of work and man power which we dont have at this stage.


On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:38 PM, oeai <[hidden email]> wrote:
well, the thing was to modify presets and see it changes.
does lsp have api to use in lmms without browser?

On 28.04.2014 17:30, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:

> That is the whole goal of LSP. to provide a sharing platform for
> presets etc
>
--
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Re: collaborato

Tres Finocchiaro
In reply to this post by oeai-2
oe,

I like this idea conceptually.  I would call it a git-style repo for presets plus native LMMS "git clone"-style support.

I'm not sure git would be the best technology for this but you bring up a very valid point.  It's similar to how KDE allows downloading wallpapers from kde.org without a web browser.

I'm not sure how it would all work, but please elaborate as to how you would like to see this.  It is a valid concern right now now if it's feasible down the road and if we're evaluating the future replacement of the LSP.



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Re: collaborato

Jonathan Aquilina
I have an idea how we can implement this within lmms. We could actually create a button within lmms that opens up like a pop up window which connects to LSP and allows users to download presets etc.


On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Tres Finocchiaro <[hidden email]> wrote:
oe,

I like this idea conceptually.  I would call it a git-style repo for presets plus native LMMS "git clone"-style support.

I'm not sure git would be the best technology for this but you bring up a very valid point.  It's similar to how KDE allows downloading wallpapers from kde.org without a web browser.

I'm not sure how it would all work, but please elaborate as to how you would like to see this.  It is a valid concern right now now if it's feasible down the road and if we're evaluating the future replacement of the LSP.



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Re: collaborato

oeai-2
there are few tabs on the left, so add one more - online repo to browse
different branches/instrumens/styles . So when you switch the branch
you'll get a new set of instrument presets or just songs sorted in styles.
to pick one - just like a saves it to disk /raw.github/ or get a full
list of all patches and browse it as is.

the better idea is that users with accounts can create their projects
aka band and within that project they can sync their presets and song
modifications.


On 28.04.2014 18:04, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:

> I have an idea how we can implement this within lmms. We could
> actually create a button within lmms that opens up like a pop up
> window which connects to LSP and allows users to download presets etc.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Tres Finocchiaro
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     oe,
>
>     I like this idea conceptually.  I would call it a git-style repo
>     for presets plus native LMMS "git clone"-style support.
>
>     I'm not sure git would be the best technology for this but you
>     bring up a very valid point.  It's similar to how KDE allows
>     downloading wallpapers from kde.org <http://kde.org> without a web
>     browser.
>
>     I'm not sure how it would all work, but please elaborate as to how
>     you would like to see this.  It is a valid concern right now now
>     if it's feasible down the road and if we're evaluating the future
>     replacement of the LSP.
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
>     Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.  Get
>     unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform
>     available.
>     Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
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>     _______________________________________________
>     LMMS-devel mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lmms-devel
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jonathan Aquilina


--
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Re: collaborato

Jonathan Aquilina
Oeai are you talking about a cloud storage solution in a nut shell?


On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 4:56 PM, oeai <[hidden email]> wrote:
there are few tabs on the left, so add one more - online repo to browse different branches/instrumens/styles . So when you switch the branch you'll get a new set of instrument presets or just songs sorted in styles.
to pick one - just like a saves it to disk /raw.github/ or get a full list of all patches and browse it as is.

the better idea is that users with accounts can create their projects aka band and within that project they can sync their presets and song modifications.


On 28.04.2014 18:04, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
I have an idea how we can implement this within lmms. We could actually create a button within lmms that opens up like a pop up window which connects to LSP and allows users to download presets etc.


On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Tres Finocchiaro <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

    oe,

    I like this idea conceptually.  I would call it a git-style repo
    for presets plus native LMMS "git clone"-style support.

    I'm not sure git would be the best technology for this but you
    bring up a very valid point.  It's similar to how KDE allows
    downloading wallpapers from kde.org <http://kde.org> without a web
    browser.

    I'm not sure how it would all work, but please elaborate as to how
    you would like to see this.  It is a valid concern right now now
    if it's feasible down the road and if we're evaluating the future
    replacement of the LSP.



    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform
    available.
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    [hidden email]
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Re: collaborato

oeai-2
cloud storage will not permit you to revert changes, imho it is easier
to make through a git/mercurial, this can work on top of cloud as
storage, but needs more functions for groups and accounts and files too.
to share .xml through cloud - you won't see any changes and with git
you'll get those, and those who share it they can create own branch or
version (#tag) so it will function as a trigger for search maybe or some
kind of sorting.

On 28.04.2014 19:07, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:

> Oeai are you talking about a cloud storage solution in a nut shell?
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 4:56 PM, oeai <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     there are few tabs on the left, so add one more - online repo to
>     browse different branches/instrumens/styles . So when you switch
>     the branch you'll get a new set of instrument presets or just
>     songs sorted in styles.
>     to pick one - just like a saves it to disk /raw.github/ or get a
>     full list of all patches and browse it as is.
>
>     the better idea is that users with accounts can create their
>     projects aka band and within that project they can sync their
>     presets and song modifications.
>
>
> --
> Jonathan Aquilina


--
symbiants
oe ai


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Re: collaborato

Tres Finocchiaro
In reply to this post by Jonathan Aquilina
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Jonathan Aquilina <[hidden email]> wrote:
Oeai are you talking about a cloud storage solution in a nut shell?

Where it resides would be web based and ideally in a distributed cloud service, but that digs a bit deep into the design.

I believe he's speaking a bit more high-level about the functionality.  It's the fundamental idea of online projects and presets being shown directly in the application.

Here are two quick mock-ups of this.  Of course, this could fill the navigation pane with thousands of items so organization and downloading would have to be well thought out.



Figure 1:  Dedicated Online Tab


Figure 2: Leverage Existing Tabs


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Re: collaborato

oeai-2
yeah, it is.

to navigate through items online you'll get more folders or just switch
between branches, so you'll get a list of branches and will get a file
when you switch to it. Or just clone it all and work without latencies
(that will lower hosting pressure probably).
user creating etc. can work on site, so if you got an account then you
can create own repo/project, provide name/password to program and work
with it.

On 28.04.2014 19:53, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Jonathan Aquilina
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Oeai are you talking about a cloud storage solution in a nut shell?
>
>
> Where it resides would be web based and ideally in a distributed cloud
> service, but that digs a bit deep into the design.
>
> I believe he's speaking a bit more high-level about the functionality.
>  It's the fundamental idea of online projects and presets being shown
> directly in the application.
>
> Here are two quick mock-ups of this.  Of course, this could fill the
> navigation pane with thousands of items so organization and
> downloading would have to be well thought out.
>
>
>
> Figure 1:  Dedicated Online Tab
>
>
> Figure 2: Leverage Existing Tabs
>


--
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Re: collaborato

Tobias Doerffel-2
In reply to this post by Tres Finocchiaro
Hi,

we had that feature before in the old master branch:


It was reading an index file at the sharing platform (http://lmms.sourceforge.net/WebResources/Index) and downloaded individual resources on-demand. Technically everything is in place in the old-master branch and only needs to be ported to the current code base.

Toby

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Re: collaborato

oeai-2
That's nice! But it's not the same =) as just a file sharing storage
through git it's better to share unzipped files to get many versions of
1 file.
for 1 file you can have many tune-ups to get completely different sounds
and using file storage will make it very large, but using diff/patch of
let's say not git, but mercurial will probably make it small at least on
server side with .gz enabled.
worse case is searching and sorting files - better solution is local .db
so it won't load server side and having mercurial/git structure can
solve this problem, by downloading only structure files first and
working files on demand just like with git submodules.



On 28.04.2014 23:47, Tobias Doerffel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> we had that feature before in the old master branch:
>
> http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~doto/lmms/lmms-goes-online.png 
> <http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/%7Edoto/lmms/lmms-goes-online.png>
> http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~doto/lmms/lmms-goes-online-2.png 
> <http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/%7Edoto/lmms/lmms-goes-online-2.png>
>
> It was reading an index file at the sharing platform
> (http://lmms.sourceforge.net/WebResources/Index) and downloaded
> individual resources on-demand. Technically everything is in place in
> the old-master branch and only needs to be ported to the current code
> base.
>
> Toby
>
>
> --
> Symbiants
> oe ai

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Re: collaborato

Jonathan Aquilina
Git is designed for version control of code. What I would say is that the with LSP we provide a detailed description of the preset and if someone modifies it or updates it for their own needs they upload it to LSP again. Only the original owner can remove presets that they fix and submit to the sharing platform again.


On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 10:40 PM, oeai <[hidden email]> wrote:
That's nice! But it's not the same =) as just a file sharing storage
through git it's better to share unzipped files to get many versions of
1 file.
for 1 file you can have many tune-ups to get completely different sounds
and using file storage will make it very large, but using diff/patch of
let's say not git, but mercurial will probably make it small at least on
server side with .gz enabled.
worse case is searching and sorting files - better solution is local .db
so it won't load server side and having mercurial/git structure can
solve this problem, by downloading only structure files first and
working files on demand just like with git submodules.



On 28.04.2014 23:47, Tobias Doerffel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> we had that feature before in the old master branch:
>
> http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~doto/lmms/lmms-goes-online.png
> <http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/%7Edoto/lmms/lmms-goes-online.png>
> http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~doto/lmms/lmms-goes-online-2.png
> <http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/%7Edoto/lmms/lmms-goes-online-2.png>
>
> It was reading an index file at the sharing platform
> (http://lmms.sourceforge.net/WebResources/Index) and downloaded
> individual resources on-demand. Technically everything is in place in
> the old-master branch and only needs to be ported to the current code
> base.
>
> Toby
>
>
> --
> Symbiants
> oe ai

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: collaborato

Tres Finocchiaro
I like the idea of versioned changes similar to a wiki or a git repo.

What I find pretty exciting is this feature in it's basic form was already started! :)




On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Jonathan Aquilina <[hidden email]> wrote:
Git is designed for version control of code. What I would say is that the with LSP we provide a detailed description of the preset and if someone modifies it or updates it for their own needs they upload it to LSP again. Only the original owner can remove presets that they fix and submit to the sharing platform again.


On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 10:40 PM, oeai <[hidden email]> wrote:
That's nice! But it's not the same =) as just a file sharing storage
through git it's better to share unzipped files to get many versions of
1 file.
for 1 file you can have many tune-ups to get completely different sounds
and using file storage will make it very large, but using diff/patch of
let's say not git, but mercurial will probably make it small at least on
server side with .gz enabled.
worse case is searching and sorting files - better solution is local .db
so it won't load server side and having mercurial/git structure can
solve this problem, by downloading only structure files first and
working files on demand just like with git submodules.



On 28.04.2014 23:47, Tobias Doerffel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> we had that feature before in the old master branch:
>
> http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~doto/lmms/lmms-goes-online.png
> <http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/%7Edoto/lmms/lmms-goes-online.png>
> http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~doto/lmms/lmms-goes-online-2.png
> <http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/%7Edoto/lmms/lmms-goes-online-2.png>
>
> It was reading an index file at the sharing platform
> (http://lmms.sourceforge.net/WebResources/Index) and downloaded
> individual resources on-demand. Technically everything is in place in
> the old-master branch and only needs to be ported to the current code
> base.
>
> Toby
>
>
> --
> Symbiants
> oe ai

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--
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Re: collaborato

diiz
In reply to this post by Tobias Doerffel-2
On 04/28/2014 10:47 PM, Tobias Doerffel wrote:
>
>
> It was reading an index file at the sharing platform
> (http://lmms.sourceforge.net/WebResources/Index) and downloaded
> individual resources on-demand. Technically everything is in place in
> the old-master branch and only needs to be ported to the current code
> base.
>

I really think we should wait and think about this before merging this.

I remember trying this feature on the old master... I didn't like it. It
seemed kind of buggy and unstable then. Also the file browser in the old
master version was  much worse than the one we have now...

Also, on a more conceptual level... I don't need nor want web
functionality in LMMS, I use LMMS for production, not social media... At
the very least this should be able to be turned off in the settings.

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Re: collaborato

Jonathan Aquilina
Vesa we arent saying social media here. we are talking about easy access to presets etc for download


On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 5:37 AM, Vesa <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 04/28/2014 10:47 PM, Tobias Doerffel wrote:
>
>
> It was reading an index file at the sharing platform
> (http://lmms.sourceforge.net/WebResources/Index) and downloaded
> individual resources on-demand. Technically everything is in place in
> the old-master branch and only needs to be ported to the current code
> base.
>

I really think we should wait and think about this before merging this.

I remember trying this feature on the old master... I didn't like it. It
seemed kind of buggy and unstable then. Also the file browser in the old
master version was  much worse than the one we have now...

Also, on a more conceptual level... I don't need nor want web
functionality in LMMS, I use LMMS for production, not social media... At
the very least this should be able to be turned off in the settings.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: collaborato

diiz
On 04/29/2014 08:27 AM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Vesa we arent saying social media here. we are talking about easy
> access to presets etc for download

We have that. It's called Firefox...


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Re: collaborato

Jonathan Aquilina
FL actually does something similar in the sense it allows you to download stuff from within the DAW.


On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 7:29 AM, Vesa <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 04/29/2014 08:27 AM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Vesa we arent saying social media here. we are talking about easy
> access to presets etc for download

We have that. It's called Firefox...




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Re: collaborato

diiz
On 04/29/2014 08:38 AM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> FL actually does something similar in the sense it allows you to
> download stuff from within the DAW.
>

I don't care what FL does.

If there has to be an option for downloading presets/samples/whatever
from LSP or elsewhere, fine... but it should be configurable, it should
not break existing functionality, and it needs to be implemented better.

Particularly, the file browser shouldn't get broken so horribly as in
these pictures:

http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~doto/lmms/lmms-goes-online-2.png

Furthermore, adding online functionality to local software is always
like opening a can of worms... it adds complexity, things we have to
then worry about which we could before not worry about at all:

- What if the online address changes, what if the site gets hacked,
etc... it's not a security problem as long as we only download
presets/samples and no executable code of any kind, but it's still
something we need to think about.
- We have to ensure that web searches do not slow down the software...
there needs to be a proper separation of online/local because not
everyone has super fast internet connections - some people still live in
areas without broadband. If we have to wait for LMMS to poll external
websites every time we browse our LOCAL samples/presets... then it makes
LMMS unusable for many people. That's a no-no.
- We have to ensure that LMMS works regardless of the status of the web
connection. If the online files aren't available, or the web connection
is down entirely, local functionality must NOT, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES,
be impaired IN ANY WAY because of it. I'm writing in caps because this
is **VERY IMPORTANT**.
- There should not be a wait time at startup while LMMS checks for
online connections. Online sources should only be polled when the user
explicitly asks for them.

Proper separation of local and online spaces must be implemented before
this feature is brought anywhere near master, IMO. Not anything like in
the images Toby posted... but rather maybe an extra tab in the sidebar
that contains all of the online stuff so people can safely ignore it if
they don't need it, and still use the local functionality without
impairment.

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